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well hi I'm Alejandro Parra not gonna

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happen

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Alejandro couldn't be here today and he

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asked me to present his paper for him

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please bear with me I may not know a lot

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of the details that are involved here

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luckily Alejandro provides very text

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dense slides I'm not gonna read them to

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you okay but I will try to convey the

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meaning behind what he's doing his study

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was related to looking at the

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psychomanteum and determining whether

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the psychomanteum created a sigh

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conducive state so let's see what we got

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here aha there we go I'm not familiar

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enough with the slides either here so

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the psychomanteum is essentially and

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I'll go into more detail in a second but

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it was related to crystal gazing it was

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at one time where people used to look

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into mirrors or look into crystals and

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try to get information they would see

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things in the mirror this is an older

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practice but it was revived I'm just

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gonna bring this all up it was revived

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by Raymond Moody back in the 1970s and

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he worked with Diana Archangel to create

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and invite acree eight an environment

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where people who were grieving people

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who were going through a grieving

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process had lost a loved one so they

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could have an opportunity to communicate

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with their loved ones

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some people in here probably know more

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about the psychomanteum than I do and if

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you do I would welcome any comments

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whatever we're finished here but it was

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it was a way to try to try to facilitate

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reunions help people get through their

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grief now different hypotheses have been

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presented related to this and alejandro

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on Dean Radin who presented a number of

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different hypotheses one of them being

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that the psychomanteum was actually

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spirit communication and there were

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spirits that were actually in the room

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with people well what happened is people

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would be staring at this mirror in a

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very dark room and they would try to

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communicate with their loved ones and

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oftentimes they would see the spirit of

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their loved one either in the mirror or

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feel the presence in the room well dean

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said maybe that spirit is actually there

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and maybe it is communicating but he

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also said there are some other possible

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explanations and one of them is that

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perhaps the person who is looking into

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the mirror is having some sort of

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telepathic connection and that

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telepathic connection is being expressed

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as an external stimuli in order to

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understand it we can't rationally

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understand that voices come from nowhere

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or information might come into our mind

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from nowhere and so psychologically we

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create a situation that makes it easy

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for us to understand where these might

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be coming from and we may generate of

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apparition because that makes more sense

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to us than a voice that just comes from

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nowhere so this is one of the ways that

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Dean talked about a potential way that

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the psychomanteum might work now another

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way that it might work is there's

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there's a state called hypnagogia and

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the hypnagogic state occurs between

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waking and sleeping and there's a lot of

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imagery that occurs in a hypnagogic

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state it's possible that's something

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about the psychomanteum and being in

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this environment it's a dark room a

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mirror a very very low light something

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about being in that environment

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activates the hypnagogic

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state and allows these hallucinations or

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these images these deep images to be to

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be observed it's also not so different

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than other forms of sensory deprivation

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for example within the ganzfeld

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environment people wear headphones with

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white noise they have ping-pong balls

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over their eyes with a red light shining

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on it and and they're in a very relaxed

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state or in a very relaxed chair and it

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provides a form of sensory deprivation

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it's possible the psychomanteum does

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something similar and provide something

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that could provide a hallucinatory state

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which may also be sigh conducive and so

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what they were looking at was whether

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there was a sigh conducive components so

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this study I'm just gonna read this part

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the objective was to explore whether the

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psychomanteum technique produced the

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sigh conducive state which rendered to

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possess participant scoring above chance

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on a ganzfeld like telepathy experiment

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I'll explain that whenever we get into

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the procedure a bit the hypotheses were

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that there was a significant difference

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between the psychomanteum in the control

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condition and that the psychomanteum

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would induce a non-ordinary state of

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consciousness and this non ordinary

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state of consciousness would enable ESP

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to occur so essentially he was running

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an ESP test and trying to use the

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psychomanteum as a way to increase

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scores on the ESP test some details on

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the participants essentially there were

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a hundred and thirty participants in

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this study you can see you recruited

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them from different ways they didn't

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know the hypothesis of the experiment

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they didn't have any idea why they were

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doing this psychomanteum thing or not

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and or that there was a mere ball they

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didn't know but and as part of the

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recruitment they did signed consents and

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everything but they didn't know exactly

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besides giving them this ESP test and

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putting them in this condition all of

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the participants were asked to they had

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a little packet before heading and there

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were a couple of different instruments

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that were used couple different surveys

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that were done one of them was called

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the Betts vividness of imagery scale I'm

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not familiar with the survey since

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they're in Argentina they use the

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spanish-language version of it it

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essentially determines how likely are

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people to have to generate images how

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clearly do they see images how good are

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they at creating images one of the other

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instruments that they use is Barrett's

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hallucinations get questionnaire again

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spanish-language version and this is

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another scale that is used to determine

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how likely someone is to produce a

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hallucination so in one case they're

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trying to say can they produce a

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hallucination how likely is that to

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occur in another case they're saying how

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vivid is there are their images how

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clear is the perception of images so can

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they produce image hallucinations and

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how clearly do they see them these are

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two of the different instruments they

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used before they started this study so

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the procedure there was a whole bunch of

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different images that were generated on

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a CD what they what they have is they

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had different rows I'm gonna move on to

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this slide because this makes a little

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easier to understand they had one room

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which was a psychomanteum chamber you

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can see the upper left over here and

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they would have a person the participant

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in the study would be in that room and

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would be in a very relaxed state in a

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very comfortable chair there'd be a

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mirror in front of them and behind them

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there was a light just to give a really

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really low level of light

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the room was essentially a darkroom

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there was no light getting into it

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everything was black but they had a

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really low level of light so that think

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it's people could see the mirror and get

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some sort of feedback from the mirror

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the experimenter would be in this area

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here and the experimenter place and over

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here you can see separated from stairs

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down across another room down a hallway

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and the groove couple doors is where

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there was a sender and the sender was

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looking at a computer this is very

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similar to a God's help set up the

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sender would be looking at there was a

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pool of images that were on this

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computer about 2500 images I think it

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was and randomly once everyone was in

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place someone who wasn't part of the

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experiment at all would randomly

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generate a number that would determine

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which image should be shown on the

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computer here that would be the target

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for the experiments the sender would

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then see the see the image and start

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trying to send it for about 20 minutes

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they try to send that image to the

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participant who was in the receiver

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place in the psychomanteum chamber the

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experimenter had no contact with the

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sender at all and only had contact with

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the receiver in order to get them all

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set up and make sure the psychomanteum

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was working and make sure they were safe

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during the study there were two

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different conditions in one condition

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the participant would be looking into

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the mirror and with his low level of

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light in a second condition the

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participant would be in the darkroom

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completely dark nothing no psychomanteum

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at all the mirror would be covered so

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that was the control condition in this

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case they were actually they would sit

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there and they would just be told relax

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however you're comfortable relaxing and

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just think about what you're perceiving

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what you're perceiving is is happening

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in a psychomanteum condition the mirror

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would be uncovered there would be a low

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level of light and they would

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seeing reflections in the mirror

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supposedly they would see hallucinations

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this is what the psychomanteum was

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designed for so hallucinations or images

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that might reflect what's being sent

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from the sender computer the whole time

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they're talking they have some white

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noise going on in their ears and they're

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talking about what their perceptions are

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and it's being recorded as soon as this

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twenty minutes is up

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they now have we know there's a target

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that was chosen randomly

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we have mentation and impressions that

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the receiver had at this point this

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random participant is random

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experimenter again would choose three

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decoy targets as well so we'd end up

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with four photographs that would be

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displayed on a computer screen the

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participant would look at the computer

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screen see all four of the images and

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try to determine which one was the

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target so they have a one in four chance

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to get it right 25% right you got four

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targets and one of them is a real one

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they're guessing which one it is and

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which one corresponds to their

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experience whenever they were in the

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receiver so the concept is that there

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would be a difference when someone was

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in a psychomanteum state then when they

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weren't this would indicate the

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psychomanteum actually had a more sy

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conducive result this is Alejandro and a

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psychomanteum lab this is another

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picture of someone in the lab and here

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is Alejandra looking mysterious and kind

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so essentially the psychomanteum

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condition the participants went through

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a recorded relaxation they would sit in

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front of a mirror and then they would

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try and they would try to determine what

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the target was later in the control

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condition the participant would just be

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in the room with her eyes closed in a

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completely dark room no mirror involved

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no mechanism for hallucination as I said

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the experimenter didn't have any contact

277
00:13:27,009 --> 00:13:21,920
the sender would look at the target and

278
00:13:28,720 --> 00:13:27,019
then the oh the experiment would tell

279
00:13:34,290 --> 00:13:28,730
the senator when to start and when to

280
00:13:36,910 --> 00:13:34,300
end the experiment so the results in

281
00:13:38,919 --> 00:13:36,920
this case the there there were four

282
00:13:41,199 --> 00:13:38,929
different rankings that they could give

283
00:13:42,730 --> 00:13:41,209
you their first place like this target

284
00:13:44,619 --> 00:13:42,740
looks like its first place it's most

285
00:13:47,590 --> 00:13:44,629
likely the one that Isis that was being

286
00:13:49,119 --> 00:13:47,600
sent they can say oh this one was second

287
00:13:51,160 --> 00:13:49,129
third and fourth so would they would

288
00:13:53,280 --> 00:13:51,170
rank the pictures that were on the

289
00:13:58,739 --> 00:13:53,290
screen to say which one was most likely

290
00:14:03,639 --> 00:13:58,749
first place hits you would expect 25%

291
00:14:06,039 --> 00:14:03,649
that's the that's chance expectation you

292
00:14:08,259 --> 00:14:06,049
can see first place hits in the

293
00:14:10,989 --> 00:14:08,269
psychomanteum condition it was thirty

294
00:14:13,299 --> 00:14:10,999
point eight percent of the time that

295
00:14:15,879 --> 00:14:13,309
they got it correct in the non

296
00:14:19,689 --> 00:14:15,889
psychomanteum condition it was twenty

297
00:14:23,230 --> 00:14:19,699
nine point two percent both of these are

298
00:14:25,480 --> 00:14:23,240
significant and indicate that hey there

299
00:14:29,460 --> 00:14:25,490
was a difference there was a variation

300
00:14:33,519 --> 00:14:29,470
from chance in both of these conditions

301
00:14:36,579 --> 00:14:33,529
but the goal of this study was to say is

302
00:14:39,009 --> 00:14:36,589
the psychomanteum condition better at

303
00:14:43,419 --> 00:14:39,019
inducing sigh than the non psychomanteum

304
00:14:46,030 --> 00:14:43,429
condition well in this case no it didn't

305
00:14:48,039 --> 00:14:46,040
really show any difference and some of

306
00:14:49,629 --> 00:14:48,049
you might be able to interpret this I

307
00:14:52,629 --> 00:14:49,639
didn't really know how to interpret this

308
00:14:54,429 --> 00:14:52,639
statistics but it definitely at the

309
00:14:56,780 --> 00:14:54,439
difference between the two conditions it

310
00:15:03,380 --> 00:14:56,790
didn't demonstrate that to psychomanteum

311
00:15:05,240 --> 00:15:03,390
actually had an effect so the scorer was

312
00:15:07,730 --> 00:15:05,250
higher for the psychomanteum condition

313
00:15:11,180 --> 00:15:07,740
than the control but the difference was

314
00:15:12,950 --> 00:15:11,190
insignificant so there was nothing that

315
00:15:14,720 --> 00:15:12,960
could demonstrate that the psychomanteum

316
00:15:20,980 --> 00:15:14,730
produced an altered state of

317
00:15:26,150 --> 00:15:23,390
but there were some questions about what

318
00:15:27,530 --> 00:15:26,160
is this non psychoactive condition where

319
00:15:29,260 --> 00:15:27,540
you're essentially having someone sit in

320
00:15:32,570 --> 00:15:29,270
the chair in the dark and saying relax

321
00:15:34,610 --> 00:15:32,580
what what what is this it's is there

322
00:15:35,870 --> 00:15:34,620
something about this state we have to

323
00:15:37,820 --> 00:15:35,880
define that state of a little more

324
00:15:41,150 --> 00:15:37,830
clearly rather than just giving people

325
00:15:42,740 --> 00:15:41,160
free rein on it also some people

326
00:15:44,720 --> 00:15:42,750
mentioned that there wasn't a control

327
00:15:46,520 --> 00:15:44,730
group you see every participant went

328
00:15:47,990 --> 00:15:46,530
through both conditions the

329
00:15:50,330 --> 00:15:48,000
psychomanteum condition and the non

330
00:15:54,020 --> 00:15:50,340
psychomanteum condition so there wasn't

331
00:15:55,820 --> 00:15:54,030
a control group that did one or that

332
00:15:57,860 --> 00:15:55,830
didn't do either and then was trying to

333
00:16:04,400 --> 00:15:57,870
guess it there was no control related to

334
00:16:06,050 --> 00:16:04,410
that and the final thing here is that

335
00:16:07,190 --> 00:16:06,060
the participant some of them who were in

336
00:16:11,450 --> 00:16:07,200
the psychomanteum they talked about

337
00:16:12,980 --> 00:16:11,460
having some relaxation they were they

338
00:16:16,520 --> 00:16:12,990
were feeling really good from the cycle

339
00:16:24,520 --> 00:16:16,530
Matthew sorry I don't really understand

340
00:16:28,970 --> 00:16:27,140
it seemed remember the scales I talked

341
00:16:30,530 --> 00:16:28,980
about related to imagery and

342
00:16:32,660 --> 00:16:30,540
hallucinations and how vivid your

343
00:16:35,930 --> 00:16:32,670
imagery is it seems that imagery is

344
00:16:38,630 --> 00:16:35,940
really important related to the ESP to

345
00:16:42,890 --> 00:16:38,640
to psychomanteum condition and ESP

346
00:16:45,860 --> 00:16:42,900
ability but in this study the

347
00:16:49,190 --> 00:16:45,870
participants who scored low on visual

348
00:16:52,790 --> 00:16:49,200
imagery actually scored better on the

349
00:16:54,170 --> 00:16:52,800
ESP test so they had lower scores no

350
00:16:56,000 --> 00:16:54,180
they were less likely to have visual

351
00:16:59,270 --> 00:16:56,010
imagery and they scored better on the

352
00:17:02,560 --> 00:16:59,280
ESP portion but in support of the

353
00:17:08,090 --> 00:17:05,210
perhaps I'll read through this perhaps

354
00:17:10,040 --> 00:17:08,100
intense Colella Pathak rapport affects

355
00:17:11,569 --> 00:17:10,050
brain functioning causing a telepathic

356
00:17:14,380 --> 00:17:11,579
communication to be perceived as though

357
00:17:16,520 --> 00:17:14,390
it was projected from outside the body

358
00:17:18,920 --> 00:17:16,530
sometimes in the form of the sender's

359
00:17:24,020 --> 00:17:18,930
image has is often reported in cases of

360
00:17:26,420 --> 00:17:24,030
crisis of telepathy for more information

361
00:17:27,700 --> 00:17:26,430
please contact Alejandro I'll try to

362
00:17:34,740 --> 00:17:27,710
answer any questions

363
00:17:41,490 --> 00:17:38,170
thank you so much I don't know how many

364
00:17:44,800 --> 00:17:41,500
of you knew Arthur Hastings

365
00:17:49,660 --> 00:17:44,810
yes we have some raise of hands he was a

366
00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:49,670
member of the SSC as well as ions and

367
00:17:55,390 --> 00:17:52,370
most likely the the parapsychology

368
00:17:58,750 --> 00:17:55,400
Association as well and I distinctively

369
00:18:02,410 --> 00:17:58,760
remember his experiments with this very

370
00:18:08,370 --> 00:18:02,420
psycho mount them and I think that it

371
00:18:12,970 --> 00:18:08,380
would be so interesting to do this

372
00:18:15,520 --> 00:18:12,980
invoking him because he's the researcher

373
00:18:21,280 --> 00:18:15,530
so he's now on the other side he passed

374
00:18:24,820 --> 00:18:21,290
away in April 2014 and I think that that

375
00:18:27,430 --> 00:18:24,830
would be really cool so looking for that

376
00:18:38,890 --> 00:18:27,440
cooperative spirit it's safe is Julie

377
00:18:40,540 --> 00:18:38,900
still here yeah in your earlier talk you

378
00:18:44,820 --> 00:18:40,550
were emphasizing the importance of

379
00:18:48,280 --> 00:18:44,830
context and I thought of that because

380
00:18:52,420 --> 00:18:48,290
the description you gave of the original

381
00:18:55,300 --> 00:18:52,430
phenomenon talked about the viewers as

382
00:18:59,080 --> 00:18:55,310
being in extreme states of emotional

383
00:19:02,560 --> 00:18:59,090
distress yes which wasn't true of the of

384
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:02,570
the participants right so it seems like

385
00:19:07,030 --> 00:19:04,850
it's it's like a different thing

386
00:19:10,120 --> 00:19:07,040
altogether really because of that that's

387
00:19:12,160 --> 00:19:10,130
very true and I will communicate that

388
00:19:14,830 --> 00:19:12,170
back to Alejandro and let him know I

389
00:19:18,130 --> 00:19:14,840
think it's a really good point also in

390
00:19:20,400 --> 00:19:18,140
the original sacher main team work my

391
00:19:24,100 --> 00:19:20,410
understanding is that the participant

392
00:19:26,680 --> 00:19:24,110
really spent a whole day was Moody and

393
00:19:28,540 --> 00:19:26,690
he really worked a really personal

394
00:19:31,920 --> 00:19:28,550
connection listen to get them in this

395
00:19:34,060 --> 00:19:31,930
right I might say global sense of

396
00:19:37,240 --> 00:19:34,070
feeling before even going into the

397
00:19:40,210 --> 00:19:37,250
soccer mania so I have a feeling the

398
00:19:41,840 --> 00:19:40,220
preparation time and expectation really

399
00:19:44,180 --> 00:19:41,850
makes a difference here in terms of

400
00:19:46,039 --> 00:19:44,190
how do you experience this and how can

401
00:19:50,060 --> 00:19:46,049
be compared to the original

402
00:19:52,700 --> 00:19:50,070
the other is comments I have is is okay

403
00:19:55,310 --> 00:19:52,710
I think you said that the participant

404
00:19:57,200 --> 00:19:55,320
looks at all four pictures yes

405
00:19:59,840 --> 00:19:57,210
okay now you can't really rule out

406
00:20:01,940 --> 00:19:59,850
precognition because you might be going

407
00:20:03,980 --> 00:20:01,950
ahead and being drawn to one that's more

408
00:20:07,760 --> 00:20:03,990
attractive than the other so that could

409
00:20:10,159 --> 00:20:07,770
diffuse the results and yoga so comment

410
00:20:13,700 --> 00:20:10,169
I like to make is I really would like to

411
00:20:16,270 --> 00:20:13,710
have psychologists and those in the

412
00:20:18,740 --> 00:20:16,280
parapsychology field stop using the word

413
00:20:21,350 --> 00:20:18,750
hallucination we're talking about mental

414
00:20:24,470 --> 00:20:21,360
imagery hallucination goes back to the

415
00:20:28,490 --> 00:20:24,480
psychiatric wards when people have nuts

416
00:20:31,250 --> 00:20:28,500
than a name to ization hallucination has

417
00:20:33,470 --> 00:20:31,260
had different meaning within the field

418
00:20:37,750 --> 00:20:33,480
of parapsychology remember that

419
00:20:40,940 --> 00:20:37,760
Alejandro's first language is Spanish so

420
00:20:43,010 --> 00:20:40,950
good fair enough I am I thought it was

421
00:20:46,130 --> 00:20:43,020
really interesting talk the idea of the

422
00:20:48,200 --> 00:20:46,140
mirror experience recently a friend of

423
00:20:51,049 --> 00:20:48,210
mine Richard restack dr. Richard resdac

424
00:20:54,770 --> 00:20:51,059
who's a neuroscientist wrote an article

425
00:20:57,500 --> 00:20:54,780
for for one of the peer-reviewed

426
00:21:00,730 --> 00:20:57,510
journals that involved a fella by the

427
00:21:04,100 --> 00:21:00,740
name of Giovanni Caputo who is a Italian

428
00:21:06,470 --> 00:21:04,110
neuroscientist who had an experiment in

429
00:21:08,870 --> 00:21:06,480
which he basically had participants

430
00:21:13,520 --> 00:21:08,880
basically sit in a chair in a nearly

431
00:21:15,380 --> 00:21:13,530
dark room and then about five feet away

432
00:21:16,880 --> 00:21:15,390
from a mirror that would be sitting on

433
00:21:20,029 --> 00:21:16,890
another chair full-length mirror on the

434
00:21:22,310 --> 00:21:20,039
other chair and the idea is that they

435
00:21:24,590 --> 00:21:22,320
would have to sit in that room for five

436
00:21:26,330 --> 00:21:24,600
minutes and just stare at their own

437
00:21:28,730 --> 00:21:26,340
reflection in near darkness in the

438
00:21:30,470 --> 00:21:28,740
mirror and of course for a

439
00:21:32,120 --> 00:21:30,480
neuroscientist all they really cared

440
00:21:33,950 --> 00:21:32,130
about was the results of what those

441
00:21:36,049 --> 00:21:33,960
people were experiencing and what they

442
00:21:38,750 --> 00:21:36,059
were experiencing were incredibly

443
00:21:40,190 --> 00:21:38,760
bizarre things in the mirror I mean and

444
00:21:42,350 --> 00:21:40,200
when you think about it so so

445
00:21:44,659 --> 00:21:42,360
immediately when I read that it hearkens

446
00:21:46,340 --> 00:21:44,669
me back to Bloody Mary okay because when

447
00:21:47,430 --> 00:21:46,350
I was young that's what we used to play

448
00:21:51,269 --> 00:21:47,440
and

449
00:21:53,159 --> 00:21:51,279
version of what you're talking about the

450
00:21:54,210 --> 00:21:53,169
psychomanteum process is really Bloody

451
00:21:58,440 --> 00:21:54,220
Mary

452
00:22:01,740 --> 00:21:58,450
you know PhD style right and and so so

453
00:22:04,350 --> 00:22:01,750
what so what's interesting is that is

454
00:22:06,060 --> 00:22:04,360
that when you think about Bloody Mary

455
00:22:08,490 --> 00:22:06,070
you're really doing that really after

456
00:22:10,080 --> 00:22:08,500
spinning around 13 times and then you

457
00:22:11,759 --> 00:22:10,090
know chanting Bloody Mary and then

458
00:22:13,919 --> 00:22:11,769
you're looking at the mirror and you're

459
00:22:15,930 --> 00:22:13,929
and you're saying in the mirror with as

460
00:22:18,090 --> 00:22:15,940
much conviction that you are the one who

461
00:22:19,529 --> 00:22:18,100
killed her child you know and then

462
00:22:21,330 --> 00:22:19,539
Bloody Mary's supposed to come out and

463
00:22:23,549 --> 00:22:21,340
reach out of the mirror and grab you and

464
00:22:25,139 --> 00:22:23,559
pull you into the mirror and and what's

465
00:22:26,759 --> 00:22:25,149
crazy about it is that you really do

466
00:22:27,930 --> 00:22:26,769
freak out in that moment when you're a

467
00:22:31,409 --> 00:22:27,940
kid and you're you know if you're like a

468
00:22:33,539 --> 00:22:31,419
young you know in a pre adolescent girl

469
00:22:37,460 --> 00:22:33,549
you know at a slumber party doing this

470
00:22:40,110 --> 00:22:37,470
it turns into like a crazy hysteria the

471
00:22:42,090 --> 00:22:40,120
interesting thing to me is that he in

472
00:22:44,220 --> 00:22:42,100
his article he talked about that as

473
00:22:45,539 --> 00:22:44,230
being a delusion that he was talking

474
00:22:47,549 --> 00:22:45,549
about this as being a delusion and

475
00:22:49,740 --> 00:22:47,559
similar to like what Dale was saying in

476
00:22:52,470 --> 00:22:49,750
calling these hallucinations it really

477
00:22:55,860 --> 00:22:52,480
does kind of makes me wonder whether or

478
00:22:57,450 --> 00:22:55,870
not as a person who actually experiences

479
00:22:59,129 --> 00:22:57,460
something inside the mirror whether or

480
00:23:01,070 --> 00:22:59,139
not there is something that's relevant

481
00:23:05,100 --> 00:23:01,080
so I find that your talk regarding

482
00:23:07,259 --> 00:23:05,110
particularly how sigh the difference

483
00:23:11,070 --> 00:23:07,269
between the sigh experience and the and

484
00:23:13,590 --> 00:23:11,080
the mental imagery experience is is very

485
00:23:16,200 --> 00:23:13,600
different yet I tend to think that there

486
00:23:20,730 --> 00:23:16,210
is something interesting with regards to

487
00:23:22,560 --> 00:23:20,740
finding elements of your answer I mean

488
00:23:24,480 --> 00:23:22,570
you know in other words almost like the

489
00:23:27,180 --> 00:23:24,490
almost like the ayahuasca experience

490
00:23:29,340 --> 00:23:27,190
sort of finding your spirit who ends up

491
00:23:31,830 --> 00:23:29,350
giving you answers to things that you

492
00:23:33,779 --> 00:23:31,840
need to know that you may not know can

493
00:23:35,549 --> 00:23:33,789
be found in that mirror and and and I

494
00:23:38,460 --> 00:23:35,559
know that you know also in the black

495
00:23:41,159 --> 00:23:38,470
magic mirror concept is always is also

496
00:23:43,139 --> 00:23:41,169
about that idea of kind of using the

497
00:23:45,659 --> 00:23:43,149
mirror as a way of being able to get

498
00:23:47,700 --> 00:23:45,669
some sort of guidance from your spirit

499
00:23:49,200 --> 00:23:47,710
guides if you will so I don't know I

500
00:23:51,570 --> 00:23:49,210
just I thought it was a great talk sir

501
00:23:53,070 --> 00:23:51,580
thank you very much good some good

502
00:23:56,129 --> 00:23:53,080
points are and you know a lot of times

503
00:23:58,560 --> 00:23:56,139
crystal gazing can be considered to be a

504
00:24:01,110 --> 00:23:58,570
reflection of your subconscious whether

505
00:24:03,299 --> 00:24:01,120
your desires your fears and

506
00:24:05,640 --> 00:24:03,309
this is why it was used by Raymond moody

507
00:24:07,350 --> 00:24:05,650
to try to help people overcome grief to

508
00:24:08,760 --> 00:24:07,360
help him get through it for this also

509
00:24:09,900 --> 00:24:08,770
related a Bloody Mary thing you know

510
00:24:14,310 --> 00:24:09,910
there's a new thing called Charlie

511
00:24:17,970 --> 00:24:14,320
Charlie Charlie yeah look it up it's a

512
00:24:20,510 --> 00:24:17,980
new Bloody Mary now could you please run

513
00:24:23,220 --> 00:24:20,520
back to the slide that had the table of

514
00:24:24,570 --> 00:24:23,230
outcome numbers on it so that those of

515
00:24:26,700 --> 00:24:24,580
us who are comfortable doing our own

516
00:24:31,950 --> 00:24:26,710
statistical analyses could jot them down

517
00:24:36,590 --> 00:24:31,960
thank you this is the comparison between

518
00:24:42,390 --> 00:24:40,710
okay well York is dotting that down I do

519
00:24:44,640 --> 00:24:42,400
want to mention something about Arthur

520
00:24:47,250 --> 00:24:44,650
Hastings work because Arthur was working

521
00:24:52,410 --> 00:24:47,260
with the deceased and you're working

522
00:24:55,919 --> 00:24:52,420
with images so images are more static in

523
00:24:57,570 --> 00:24:55,929
a way then you know some spirit body out

524
00:25:00,260 --> 00:24:57,580
there that you're trying to connect to

525
00:25:02,940 --> 00:25:00,270
so that there's there's something to be

526
00:25:06,270 --> 00:25:02,950
thought about that there but I'm looking

527
00:25:13,200 --> 00:25:06,280
forward to UM to Julie say hi for me

528
00:25:14,730 --> 00:25:13,210
that Arthur will you okay let's give a

529
00:25:17,090 --> 00:25:14,740
great round of applause